Main illustration: Jason Yim
For years, many companies have been following a best-in-breed approach, searching for the very best communication app for each specific need. Could this trend be changing?
Few people are better advocates for a unified view of the customer experience than Dan O’Connell. He’s been the Chief Revenue Officer and Chief Strategy Officer at Dialpad, the cloud communication platform, since the spring of 2018, but his fascination for conversations and natural language processing came even sooner. Early in 2017, Dan joined the speech analytics startup TalkIQ, which would later be acquired by Dialpad, as their CEO. “Voice is this last offline dataset,” he tells us. For Dan, it represents a massive untapped opportunity in business, and that belief keeps driving much of his work today.
“The teams responsible for customer success and support tend to manage and influence more revenue opportunities than the field sales team”
For the first 15 years of his career, Dan was responsible for building and scaling sales teams in Google and AdRoll, which is why Dan is often playfully referred to as “the sales guy,” and probably why his approach to the customer experience is as revenue-driven as a sales organization. After all, as he points out, in a successful organization, the teams responsible for customer success and support tend to manage and influence more revenue opportunities than the field sales team – and if your customer service isn’t good or you’re not looking at CX from a holistic point of view, these chances of expansion are slim to none.
In this episode, Bobby Stapleton, our own Director of Customer Support, sat down with Dan to talk about delivering an integrated customer experience and how that can transform customer support from a cost center into a profit one.
If you’re short on time, here are a few quick takeaways:
- Leaning on flexibility. Messaging, voice, video – companies should leverage all these different ways of interacting with customers. Only then can they seamlessly escalate conversations from chat messages to phone calls or video calls, depending on what the person or the situation requires.
- Reduce the complexity of your tech stack. Most companies end up with a variety of tools that don’t really play nicely with each other. Dan believes it’s better to invest in integrated systems and to sacrifice a few extra features in favor of a better user experience.
- Get all the information in one place. Having a holistic view of all the interactions that a customer has had with the company helps avoid common frustrations, such as repeating the same information over and over to multiple reps.
- AI augments support. AI should be deployed to solve the most frequent, simple problems. From ticket categorization to suggesting answers for each customer interaction, these systems take care of routine tasks so your team can focus on delivering meaningful experiences.
- Push support to drive revenue. Dan always encourages CX teams to focus on revenue – by driving retention and increasing cross-sells and upsells, companies can accelerate their growth faster and more sustainably than by acquiring new customers.
If you enjoy our discussion, check out more episodes of our podcast. You can subscribe on iTunes, on Spotify, or grab the RSS feed in your player of choice. What follows is a lightly edited transcript of the episode.
Bobby Stapleton: Dan, we are delighted to welcome you to the show today. To kick things off, would you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Dan O’Connell: So thrilled to be here, thanks for having me. I’m the Chief Revenue Officer and I’m Chief Strategy Officer here at Dialpad. Dialpad is a cloud communication and collaboration platform. We power voice, video, messaging, contact center, and the cloud across any device, anywhere in the world. Prior to joining Dialpad, I was the CEO of a speech analytics startup called TalkIQ. We raised about 22 million in funding, backed by Salesforce ventures.
Before running that business and building that startup, I was at Google for about a decade, helping building out their inside sales organization for AdWords. Left after, as I said, nine and a half years and helped scale another ad tech business. So, I’m well-versed in go-to-market motions, customer support, customer success, sales, and I think I’ve probably had every role under the sun along the way so far.
Bobby: That’s great. The focus of our series is that growth in scale, so your journey fits right in. You mentioned previously running TalkIQ – how does that shape your work at Dialpad? Tell us a bit about that, what you’re working on and what you’re most excited about.
Dan: I spent about 14 years managing sales and support organizations, and it became very evident that when you’re trying to scale those businesses, you’re trying to figure out how to ramp people or you’re trying to figure out how to reduce churn or drive revenue. And it always comes back to, “Hey, all of these conversations happen every day. If we could only just understand them or coach people through them.”
“It became very evident that we could suddenly understand these conversations and start to understand voice as a dataset”
I was fortunate to meet two technical founders that had started on the idea for TalkIQ. I fell in love with the idea because it was really about “Hey, let’s go and use speech recognition and NLP.” And NLP is just natural language processing – once you have something in a text format, how do you start to identify things happening within it? They were basically building this real-time tape recorder. And it became very evident that we could suddenly understand these conversations and start to understand voice as a dataset.
As we were building that product at TalkIQ, we had a partnership with Dialpad, and what’s funny is one of the founders here at Dialpad was the first engineer that I sat next to some 17 years ago at Google. And so I called up Brian Peterson, and I was like, “Hey, we’ve got this amazing technology that can help us understand conversations in real-time. And we were trying to figure out distribution.” And so, that partnership ultimately turned into an acquisition.
It made a lot of sense economically. It made a lot of sense in terms of the vision and strategy. Now, we’re three years into that journey, and we’re the only provider and platform that’s out there that’s got native speech recognition NLP baked into the platform, which is kind of a fancy way of saying we can understand and augment these conversations as they’re happening. And I think there are just immense opportunities to go and leverage those technologies to go and solve real problems for businesses, both on the service side and also on the revenue side.
Is the phone call dead?
Bobby: You mentioned conversations. At Intercom, we use the term conversation to describe our messaging tickets. But y’all are kind of in this business of phones and I’d love to hear, as a millennial, are millennials done with phone calls? Or should we not be so quick to undermine the power of a good call? We see on our side that there, despite folks saying they love chat, more than 50% of customers across all age groups still really want to be able to reach out to a customer support team over the phone. What are your thoughts there?
Dan: It’s funny, anytime I hear these trends, everything always seems to turn on a dime. And I think what’s evident is people are really leveraging messaging more than they ever have. Messaging has become a really quick, easy way to engage with brands. So I think what you guys are building is phenomenal. We use it, we love it. But more importantly, I also think the pandemic has shown that while video has been great, I also get really burned out on video calls. And sometimes I look forward to the meeting that is just the audio call and the voice call. Sometimes there’s this hoopla around, “Hey, is the phone call dead?” If anything, I actually think there’s this resurgence of it.
“There are all these different mediums you can leverage to interact with people or brands. What becomes important is having that flexibility”
At the end of the day, there are all these different mediums or different ways you can leverage to interact with people or brands. Whether it’s messaging, whether it’s on video, whether it’s on just voice. And I think what becomes important in the future is having that flexibility and finding platforms and features that work in the way that you want. Meaning, you may start with a message and interacting with a brand right on their website through a messaging platform or through Intercom. And then, at some point, you may want to escalate that into a video call, and then you want to be able to actually port it over to an audio call because suddenly you have to leave your house.
None of these things ever die or fade or go away, they all have a very unique utility. And I think what becomes intrinsically important is finding platforms that natively integrate and provide that power of flexibility for people. But I will say, not to knock on the millennials, I think I’m right on the cusp of getting to claim my millennialship, but I will say I think it’s evident that people prefer to be text messaged and helped on video these days. But again, there are immense opportunities on voice and we’ll see this resurgence.
Bobby: That is so smart and I think such an insight for our industry. And if I’m hearing you, there is a power to this all-in-one platform to be able to flex and meet your customer’s needs dynamically, depending on whatever medium is the right fit. Something we’re talking about at Intercom is: we love, on our support team, to lean heavily into messaging, but what is the right time to jump on a phone call? And it can be easy to conflate that with calling 1-800-INTERCOM. And it’s not. It really is just this organic extension of what starts as a chat.
“Having the power to up-level a conversation to video, or move it across devices and start it on messaging, whatever it might be, becomes very important”
Dan: If you’d asked me, kind of 15 months ago, whether I ever would have expected video to show up in contact centers or call centers… And today, I think it’s almost odd when you show up and do a video meeting and video’s turned off for people. So I think these are all very interesting trends. Flexibility is really important. People want to be able to communicate with their customers or engage with the brand in all of these different ways, and having that power of flexibility to up-level a conversation, as I said, to video, or move it across devices and start it on messaging, whatever it might be, becomes very important.
Bobby: I love that phrase you use like there’s rich data in these voice and video mediums, and capturing that, to be able to build off that customer story, customer context…
Dan: Yeah. You asked me and I don’t think I answered – what gets me excited? Voice is this last offline dataset, that’s the term I try to coin anytime I can. But it really is unique. We have these conversations and people take bad notes, and we’re imperfect in the information that we push to a CRM or we put into a ticketing platform. But then, there are all these other opportunities to use an NLP, whether that’s around the messaging that’s happening on a website, chats, SMS. And so, all of those are other periphery massive opportunities to actually understand the voice of the customer. You guys are obviously focused on it. I think there are just immense opportunities to go and solve that for businesses, as well. And then, how do you actually tie it together to give somebody a holistic view of the customer? But even more importantly, how do you give the agent a holistic view of all of that engagement and the sentiment of how somebody feels about something?
A holistic approach to customer support
Bobby: We’ve all heard the phrase, “there’s an app for that.” And I think of our own app store, there are so many different, cool ways people can customize their workspace. But we’d love to hear your thoughts: is there a thing as too many apps? I read on LinkedIn that you like to refer to Dialpad as this Pangea of communication. That’s like one app that can do so many things. What’s your take on that?
Dan: One of the trends that we have seen around communication and collaboration has been this approach of reducing the amount of friction that we have in terms of communicating with people, whether that’s internally or externally. And I think we see that today. You’ve probably got a couple of different apps that are open – one might be solving your video conference needs, and one might be handling your team’s messaging needs. And there’s friction that actually happens to bounce back and forth. And so, something that we have seen very prevalent with our buyers has been, “Hey, I want to actually buy one solution that can do all of those things cleanly.” I always think there’s an argument of best-in-breed, right? And so, you’re definitely going to see some businesses that make a choice to say, “I’m going to buy one video platform, and I’m buying one messaging platform. And I hope they tightly integrate.” And there’s always going to be a little bit of friction that shows up there.
And I think there’s going to be a shift in these businesses and a massive opportunity around, “Hey, I want the basics of those features, and I want them to seamlessly come from one provider and just work.” And ultimately, the trade-off is that you might throw off a couple of features. But you pick up simplicity and something that’s completely integrated and native. And that’s going to provide a better user experience. So, I do think the trend we have seen from buyers is this idea of an all-in-one provider.
“Regardless of the medium somebody has used to reach out to you as a brand, you want the agent to have a holistic view of everything that has transpired”
Our own challenges, internally, we use a lot of tools. I’m sure, much like many of the listeners, and yourselves included, there’s a never-ending amount of tools out there that can solve different problems. Getting them to play nicely together has been really challenging, no matter how much somebody says it will work. So we really try to simplify our approach in how we support our users, how we go out and win new prospects in terms of sales, and how we reduce the complexity of our tech stack.
Bobby: I think that that makes a lot of sense. We subscribe to a lot of that same philosophy. And that simplicity translates to your frontline reps when they’re having these tough issues. Support is more demanding than ever these days, and if they’re sitting there trying to juggle and wrestle with products, and tech stacks, and log-ins, that’s just one thing distracting from your company’s mission.
On the customer side, one thing that definitely annoys me to no end is when I have to go about repeating myself over and over again across multiple reps, I won’t name any companies, but if you’re asking me, “What’s that worst support experience?” that is always a factor. Do you think this holistic view of communication can be the key to solving that and eliminating some of those frustrations?
Dan: Absolutely. We kind of classify it as omnichannel, which is, regardless of the medium somebody has used to reach out to you as a brand, you want the agent supporting that customer to have a holistic view of everything that has transpired. Not just with that individual person, but also with the company. Just because I’m talking to Claire today, her counterpart might’ve reached in two days ago about an issue. And so, I really do think this omnichannel experience becomes intrinsically important for businesses. I want to be in one platform servicing a customer, and I need to be able to pull in information from all of these different places. From my ticketing platform to CRM, to the email that has come in, to perhaps the voice call that’s popped in.
“How do we play better offense? If somebody is reaching out to you, that means you’re on the defense, you’re reactionary to the issue”
It truly is a little bit of a race today, and it’s still imperfect, but I do think that is where people are trying to get to. How do we do this omnichannel experience in a really, really thoughtful way? And also, how do we play better offense, right? If somebody is reaching out to you, that means you’re on the defense, you’re reactionary to the issue. When we try to build features and invest in the future, we’re trying to figure out how to arm our customer success teams to play better offense. How do we start to be more proactive? How do we identify issues that might be popping up ahead of time? Because we know when somebody calls in, it’s likely because something has gone wrong, right? And so they’re likely going to be a little bit more frustrated at that moment in time.
Bobby: That proactive support as the first step, I think, can be the easiest to ignore in an industry when you’re often fighting fires in front of you. But like you said, that customer’s already upset, and it really should be the focus for support and success teams. Is there any advice that you would give to a support leader that’s looking to start to leverage omnichannel or looking to leverage on-demand video conference and audio calls?
“Act as a customer, actually go through the experience and see whether anything breaks”
Dan: I think advice on this stuff really comes into paying attention to integrations. So, as you pick a provider, making sure that it integrates with your other pieces of the tech stack. Internally, we use Intercom for messaging, and so that natively integrates with Dialpad. So, when somebody calls in, we get the full view of what that experience looks like. We’re on Salesforce for our CRM. We natively integrate with both Salesforce and Zendesk on the CRM support sides.
It’s important to really pay attention and think about the experience that I want both the agent and the customer to have. At times, in a business, you tend to think about your own internal experience – what is the employee going to have? – and less about what that customer experience is actually going to look and feel like. And so, I think it’s really, really important for people to pay attention to the tech stack. Use the integrations when you have things tied up. Act as a customer, actually go through the experience and see whether anything breaks or not on those pieces.
Where AI comes in
Dan: When it gets into the AI technologies, there’s a lot of marketing around AI these days, so I try to stay away from AI a little bit, as a buzzword. But AI can solve some very meaningful, practical problems. It’s important for people to be focused on when they invest in AI, on problems that are frequent and simple because I think that’s where the technology is today in its evolution. You’ve got to make sure that you’ve got a problem that’s going to show up a lot, it’s pretty easy to solve, and AI is going to do wonderfully in solving that. Just don’t get too blown out into the vision of science fiction and all that.
Bobby: How do you kind of see AI integrating with the customer-facing side? You mentioned just focusing on simple problems, but any other thoughts there?
Dan: When I talk about problems, like simple problems, these are problems that people invest a ton in trying to solve today. So let’s talk about the categorization of tickets, right? You’re running a contact center or a support organization, and you’re like, “What are the most frequent feature requests?” Or, “What are the most frequent bugs?” Just being able to categorize tickets and using AI to do that is a pretty big opportunity for businesses.
Then, you also get into other things like being able to understand sentiment and being able to get into predictive churn, which I think is intrinsically important. How often is this person calling? Are they getting incredibly frustrated? Is that frustration building over time?
“If somebody calls in and this conversation has escalated from a chat to a voice call, we can actually guide the agent through it and say, ‘Oh, they’re asking for a refund, they’re asking about this new feature, or they’re mentioning this competitor. Here’s the suggested response to it'”
And then, you get into understanding the agent experience, and I think there are immense opportunities. Some of the things we do today, much like a chatbot and what you guys can do, we do it the same for an agent, which is, “Hey, here’s a recommended answer to a question.” So if somebody calls in and this conversation has escalated from a chat to a voice call, we can actually guide the agent through it and say, “Oh, they’re asking for a refund, they’re asking about this new feature, or they’re mentioning this competitor. Here’s the suggested response to it.”
Those are all practical opportunities that are alive today on Dialpad and out there with the technologies. When I think of the future of, “Hey, could you have this automated agent that sounds like a person?” it’s nice to dream about that stuff, but that is a lot harder to go and build than I think people talk about and highlight today. We’ll get there in our lifetime, probably, having some guardrails and be able to make it seem like there’s this smart thing on the other end, but I don’t see that actually showing up in meaningful ways in the next couple of years. I think that technology is still early in its evolution, and those are some really, really challenging problems to solve.
Bobby: I really like hearing you call out the benefits and the use case. In my conversation with folks newer to software in customer support, it can seem really scary, or it can seem like a really complex thing, and just kind of demystifying that, it’s like, “No, here’s the job that this can serve.” On our side, there are a lot of tickets and requests that come in that aren’t the best use of your team’s time, and as you said, that can be tackled through automation.
Dan: You think of QA scorecarding for a lot of businesses. I remember when I was managing sales teams and support teams too, as you kind of spot check calls. Now, you have systems and tools that can help provide recordings and analyze those recordings to give you a transcript output and identify the key moments and events and all of those things. That just reduces the need to have people there doing kind of these… I hate to say mundane tasks because I think there’s a lot more to it, but I think it can add value and efficiency, which is the important thing to focus on.
Bobby: Freeing up that manager to focus on what’s the real opportunity to offer guidance. If the last year taught us anything, as humans, is that we’re never going to be at a place where we’re just happy to have a script output tell us, “Hey, do this next time.” I think we’re looking for more.
“I always give the analogy of baseball – everyone swings a bat differently”
Dan: I think you bring up a good point. It’s important to have opinions. Anytime I’m on a podcast, I always think it’s important to have opinions. I’m a big believer that supporting customers in sales is part science and part art. I think that, at times, startups out there can make it seem like it’s all science, like, “Hey, if you just follow these steps, somebody is going to churn less,” or, “If you ask three more questions, you’re more likely to win the deal.” I don’t fully believe it, and I think there’s a little bit more art and empathy and things that happen in a conversation and relationships that can’t be just quantified in those manners. There are opportunities to learn directionally from that stuff, but I always caution people to be like, “Hey, I don’t know if you ask three more questions, whether you close the deal or you make the person less upset.” There’s a little bit more nuance to that today.
I always give the analogy of baseball – everyone swings a bat differently. You have to understand that people can be very, very successful and swing a bat differently. Trying to get everybody to swing the same way is not only really, really difficult, but I don’t know if it would actually improve the success rate of things. There are nuances to everything we do, nuances to every engagement, and nuances to every customer. Trying to just dumb it down into science can be a little bit of a cautionary tale.
Bobby: I would agree with you. It can be definitely like a slippery slope down that road.
Transforming support to drive revenue
Bobby: Shifting gears, I wanted to kind of touch on this theme that we’ve been talking about at Intercom over the past many years now, this idea of customer support as a profit center. It often gets thrown around that customer support is just considered a cost center. But we’ve really seen firsthand the impact of having a really great support experience in customer satisfaction, reduced churn, all of those good metrics.
In your experience, how should companies go about making that shift? Making that mindset shift from “this is just one more line item on the bill” to really seeing it as a profit center and building that kind of revenue-driven type strategy and culture?
Dan: What I think becomes very, very evident for businesses as they scale is that the fastest way to grow your revenue is to figure out how to reduce churn and increase cross-sells and upsells of your existing install base, because if you’re a successful business, in all likelihood, your installed customer base is much larger than the new logo bookings that are coming in.
“To get upsells and renewals to happen, they have to be providing good support. If not, the person is not going to renew or buy more from you”
We talk about this a lot at Dialpad. Based on my background, a lot of people kind of tease me as “Dan, the sales guy.” When I talk about sales, I think of it as you have customer experience, which is everything from support to customer success, to professional services, to sales engineering. All of those teams actually control much more revenue than our field sales organization does, which is out there cold calling and working inbound leads and trying to get new logos in the door.
So, we run our customer experience organization much like a sales organization. They’re responsible for renewals. They’re responsible for cross-sells and upsells and identifying those opportunities. If people aren’t happy with the support and service they get, they’re not going to buy more from you. Fortunately, none of our jobs are rocket science.
I’m a big believer in incentivizing people to focus on the revenue piece. If they focus on the revenue piece to get the upsells and renewals to happen, they have to be providing good support. If they’re not providing good support, the person is not going to renew or buy more from you. The fastest way that we can grow this business is not just driving net new logos. Our install base is so massive that if we can just reduce churn slightly, drive net dollar retention, and drive cross-sells and upsells, that’s going to have a much more profound impact in terms of continuing to accelerate our growth trajectory.
Bobby: What I like about that answer is that it ties back to the question I asked you around the bigger company shifts. Looking inward, and I’m thinking about my many years in the customer support space, has there been anything that you’ve done to build a culture or create a sense of ownership from your customer support team to embrace that? I know that, at times, you’re like, “Well, that’s for the other side of the house to tackle, I’m just here to answer questions.”
“Once the deal’s closed, it’s going to be managed, overseen, and grown by the CX team. And that team has to feel they have all of the bandwidth and skills necessary to be successful”
Dan: A big thing is getting the leaders in the room, and again, the beauty of a lot of this stuff is it’s not rocket science. The keys to success are defining key goals, communicating expectations, driving alignment on all those things. And I often remind people we’ve all self-opted into the same workplace. Nobody’s forcing us to show up here. That means we all want the best outcome and to be successful. So we’ve got to figure out how to work together, how to leave the egos and leave empire-building right at the door because it’s not going to be productive.
And then, talks about expectation. We had a conversation yesterday with our customer experience team, our field team, and leadership team, which was, “Hey, where do we want to get these two teams long-term?” We want to get our sales organization purely focused on net new logos. That means that when a customer comes in the door, they’ve got to figure out how to get them on as many products as they can, right? Because once the deal’s closed, it’s going to be managed, overseen, and grown by the customer experience team. And that team has to feel that they have all of the bandwidth and skills necessary to be successful on renewals, cross-sells, and upsells. What you don’t want to do is say that this lives in one place, but they don’t have the skills or the focus yet to do it.
I think those were important types of conversations. One, make sure there’s alignment. Two, talk about the expectations, be realistic and honest about where there are skill gaps and the needs of the teams – what do we think we can manage? And then, maintaining that there’s flexibility to say, “Hey, the roles and responsibilities and scopes of these teams are likely going to change.” Simply because as you scale, things are going to change, and they’re going to have different demands and needs.
Bobby: That’s super helpful advice. Thinking back on the last year, what are some of the biggest customer support trends that have really surfaced throughout the pandemic of COVID, and which of those do you think will really continue into the future?
Dan: One of the biggest trends has obviously been the rise of messaging, I think, to no surprise, having brands being able to ping you quickly and easily. We found our daily lives and interactions completely disrupted, so just being able to ping somebody, whether it’s on a website or through SMS. We all have these devices tied to the internet, and I think that’s one of the biggest trends, as you’ve got to really think about an omnichannel approach to support.
“Customers don’t want to get a note that says, ‘Hey, in 12 hours, when we wake up, we’ll get back to you’”
I also think people expect pretty much 24/7 support at this point in time. Customers don’t want to get the note that says like, “Hey, in 12 hours, when we wake up, we’ll get back to you.” So I think that’s a real trend you’re seeing a lot more of. With hybrid flexibility and technology, I think we’ve seen a lot of businesses start to adopt those things, especially leveraging different channels. Obviously, the investments in AI and automation to handle, as I said, some of the most frequent and simple problems that pop up. That’s been, to no surprise, a trend.
And then, another trend is just tools that provide flexibility for people that I think have the hardest job in the world, which is supporting customers. Having tools that allow them to work anywhere they want, on any device, and have a seamless and consistent experience.
Bobby: That’s a really great thread to really tie it all together. The ease for our team and customers, and again, the business impact there. Wrapping up here, what’s next? Do you have any big plans or projects for 2021 for you or for the team at Dialpad?
Dan: Yes, we just closed another fantastic quarter. We had our best quarter in company history just a couple of days ago. So that’s been awesome to celebrate with the team. We’ve been fortunate in terms of solving a big problem for a lot of businesses over the past year and a half, during the pandemic.
And we’ve got some interesting things that we’ll be announcing. We’ll be at Enterprise Connect, which is a big customer support conference. We’re working on things like predictive churn and predictive CSAT, which I think are really, really interesting. We’re working on some things around the sales front, around purchase intent.
“How do we get them to better focus their time and energy, whether that’s on somebody expressing more intent or somebody that’s expressing more frustration and might be heading towards churn?”
And again, how we can start to unpack and understand what’s happening within this voice data to help people play better offense. How do we get them to actually find the needle in the haystack and better focus their time and energy, whether that’s on somebody expressing more intent and is a more likely buyer or somebody that’s expressing more frustration and might be heading towards churn? How do we actually get ahead of that? We’ve got, I think, a really, really interesting and fun year ahead of us. I’m looking forward to it.
Bobby: Congrats, and know that here at Intercom, we’re rooting for you from the sidelines. Lastly, where can our listeners go to keep up with you and your work?
Dan: You can find me on LinkedIn. Our comms team is yelling at me because I’m not yet on Twitter, so I will be on Twitter shortly. I don’t post often, but when I do, I try to, at least, be thoughtful and useful. And I promise opinions. If you’re going to follow somebody, whether they’re right or wrong, I think it makes for a more entertaining follow than somebody that pushes the company lines or industry lines and never really says anything terribly profound or controversial.
Bobby: No, I definitely agree. And then, as you said, it plants a seed in folks.
Dan: Yeah. For right or not, I think it’s good because it pushes the conversation. I really like people that have opinions and are pretty open about how they feel about their brand and opportunities.
Bobby: Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Dan, to yourself and to Dialpad. Wishing you all the best.
Dan: Thanks. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time today.